I said to Hollywood, ‘Where’d he go?’ . . .

We had 5 people /gquit two nights ago.

First up was a decently geared DK who didn’t really socialize with the guild, and was upset that he wasn’t getting invited to either our Alpha or Bravo 10-man teams.  When we pulled together our raid Monday night to do 25 Ony and finish the last 2 bosses in ToC, we didn’t need anymore melee dps, and he didn’t get invited.  So he quit.

I can’t really say that I will miss the guy as I never really knew him.  If you join a raiding guild, you need to make some effort to get to know the people in the guild.  You probably won’t get raid invites just by your gear score, especially if you are a DK, which every guild seems to be absolutely stuffed with.

Second up was a pair of BFFs in real life who play a Tankadin and a Healadin. The Tankadin left first, so let’s start with him.

Tankadin was with us on a couple of 10-man raids, mostly because we couldn’t find anyone better, and was generally an annoying little prick.  During our last Ony 10 run he bitched about being the OT when both his gear and his skill level were below Karinthanis’.  In an attempt to prove his superior skills, he accidentally taunted mobs off of Karin, which resulted in several of the melee dps (including the RL) getting one shotted due to the tanks splitting aggro.  There was also some frivolity when Onyxia’s tail would periodically pivot around into the raid.  On our last ToC 10 run, he begged the RL to let him come as a healer to fill our last spot.  He then made a big fuss about being able to roll on tank gear despite the fact that he was there as a healer, and whined when the shield he wanted dropped and it went to our MT. 

Tankadin also didn’t get an invite Monday night, as we had three superior tanks in the raid, and plenty of healers.  So he quit.

Healadin was a decent healer, even if he sometimes failed at tasks like studying boss strats, repairing before raids and following instructions.  We had taken him to a few 10-man runs in the past, and he had done a decent job.  He wasn’t someone you would go out of your way to grab for a run, but he was capable of not screwing the job up too badly if you had an empty slot.

Healadin was with us on both the 25-man Ony and ToC runs Monday night, so he didn’t actually quit until after the raid.  Healadin most likely left the guild just because his buddy did.  I can respect that.  I imagine it wasn’t an easy decision either, since Healadin had basically earned a spot on our 10-man team, and was getting to heal in 25-man raids as well. 

The last group to go was a boyfriend/girlfriend pair that ran a Tankadin and a Mage respectively.  Miss Mage left first, and her motivations were not really clear.  Allegedly she didn’t think we were progressing enough as a guild.  Who knows if that was really the case.  In our previous 25-man ToC run, she got upset when the RL was short with her in vent.  (The RL had been trying to get people to clear vent, when Miss Mage decided it would be a good time to discuss utilizing a different strategy for the Twins encounter.  The RL was kind of abrupt with her, but I felt she had it coming.  Covenant isn’t a democracy when it comes to raid strategies, and you should generally be familiar with a boss fight before you decide to recommend a strategy of your own.)

((Did I mention that Miss Mage was given the Pattern: Moonshroud Bracers when they dropped last week?  Or that I just got the last Crusader Orb I need to have them crafted today?  GRRRRR))

Her boyfriend (we’ll call him Tankadin 2) dutifully gquit shortly after Miss Mage did, to the surprise of no one.  This was probably the most frustrating loss, as Tankadin 2 was a decent tank, and had become the regular 3rd tank on our 25-man runs.  (He was not the 3rd best tank in the guild, but had that position since the other tanks had better healer and/or dps alts than Tankadin 2 did.) 

Tankadin 2 had been getting phat lootz from runs recently (Covenant allocates gear based on the role you came to the raid in) and had received at least 1, if not 2, Trophies of the Crusade. 

Although I am not sure that I will miss any of the individual players that much, their collective absence will most likely be felt by Covenant going forward. 

Four of the five had been on 10-man runs with Team Bravo over the past couple weeks, and all had gear scores above 2400 on WoW-Heroes.  None were what I would consider first string players for our 10-man team, but all were players you could bring off the bench, and still get through content.

And while having second string players won’t make your team a success, the lack thereof can certainly make your team a failure.

I am generally afraid that the leadership of Covenant does not understand this.

At the moment, Covenant has a very solid 10-man team (Team Alpha) which includes all but one of the officers.  Team Alpha has cleared Ulduar 10 (currently working on hard modes) and is up to the Faction Champs on heroic 10-man ToC.  They are a solid group and I give them credit for their accomplishments.

However, they have a real problem when it comes to their lack of appreciation of other raiders.

The players that gquit, with one exception, didn’t leave because they weren’t raiding.  They left because they didn’t feel like they were appreciated.

And whether or not the officers realize it, this attitude needs to change, quickly, before it kills Covenant as a 25-man raiding guild.

As far as I can tell, the officers have temporarily abandoned their focus on 25-man progression until the quality of our raiders improves.  Their solution to the quality issue is to encourage Team Bravo to become an effective 10-man team, in the same fashion as Team Alpha.  Combine those two 10-man teams, add a few good raiders from within the guild or without, and voila – an effective 25-man raid.

But if the disrespect continues for much longer, Covenant is going to lose enough of its second string raiders, that Team Bravo will not be able to field a group capable of regularly clearing 10-man content. 

And if Team Bravo fails to achieve critical mass, the 25-man raid group will continue to fail as well.

Case in point.  Covenant recently switched from a loot council to a DKP system, with yesterday being the first day to earn DKP.  The playing field was leveled, with all being equal.  So what did Team Alpha do on the first night of the new DKP system?  Why they decide to do hard mode achievements in 10-man ToC; achievements which just happen to earn them more DKP than a non-hard mode boss kill.

Even if it wasn’t an intentional act, the perception was that the members of Team Alpha sandbagged their progression in order to give themselves more DKP than Team Bravo. 

Which is a shame, because it took away some of the enthusiasm from Team Bravo, which managed its first one-night clear of 10-man ToC (we downed Onyxia to celebrate) despite the departure of the five previously mentioned raid members.

After the third straight hard mode achievement popped in guild chat, I think I said “wow, maybe they can get 6 people to gquit tonight.” *

I’ll keep you posted.


* For the record, I was not upset about the DKP, but rather that the members of Team Alpha were completely ignorant (or informed and apathetic) of how their actions would harm the already low morale of the guild.


3 comments so far

  1. BobTurkey on

    Why’d you guys abandon Loot Council? I’ve found it to be the best of the loot systems, so i’m interested in why you guys went to DKP instead.

    Gobble gobble.

    • wantedpriest on

      Most 25-man raids, we have 15 or so regulars, and then 5-10 other guildies. Many times that group of 5-10 will have very little overlap from one raid night to the next. So we switched to DKP, in part, to try to encourage our “irregular” members to have better raid attendance.

      Further, anytime we pugged people in, we went from loot council to open rolls. So unless it was a full guild run, we weren’t even running loot council.

      There was also an issue with having all of the officers, as well as the class leads in the loot council. When 8+ members of the raid change channels in vent to decide who gets a piece of loot, it can take a stupid amount of time.

      I am a fan of loot council, so long as the council members are familiar with the gear and needs of their raiders. (We had 1 person be responsible for knowing what tanks needed what, another for the healers, and a third for the dps.)

      I think Covenant’s officers just want something numerical, that will limit people’s claims of favoratism, and also reduce the randomness associated with open rolling.


  2. BobTurkey on

    Ahh yes, the pug thing is a problem.

    Our loot council usually has our GL and any officers who are in the raid on it. As we have only three officers that usuall means there are only about three on the Loot Council at any given point in time. I beleive they use officer chat to discuss loot as they don’t leave the raid vent channel. Having 8 people on loot council would make it very hard to make any fast decisions.

    We avoid most of the favouratism claims by saying upfront that loot is biased towards GL = Officers = Core Raiders > Raiders > the Rest, with preference given to healers and tanks. If you are DPS who only raids sometimes you have less chance of getting loot unless others don’t need it, but it means that the guild gets the most value from the loot as the people most likely to be at raids get priority. Ties are broken but rolling sometimes, especially for off spec interest.

    Gobble gobble.

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